Sony Outrage: No PSN Unless You Waive Lawsuit
- Scribbled on September 14th, 2011 by Jordan Lund
- Filed in PlayStation Network, Sony PlayStation 3, WTF
Sony sent an e-mail to all their PSN subscribers today announcing a terms of service change that will be implemented on September 15, 2011. You must agree to this new TOS to continue using the Playstation Network, but doing so completely absolves Sony of any new class action lawsuit you may choose to file against Sony.
Originally I was going to write this article about how they seemed to be killing Qriocity, which is among the first changes noted in their PDF document, but things get much, much worse for folks who want to sue Sony over their PSN data breach:
The first bit that made me raise an eyebrow was the condition that the TOS can only be accepted by a legal adult. Minors will have to get their parents permission to accept the new TOS and their parents will have to agree to the contract.
Why is that you might ask? The legalese is immediately followed by this:
“NOTE: THIS AGREEMENT CONTAINS A BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER PROVISION IN SECTION 15 THAT AFFECTS YOUR RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT AND WITH RESPECT TO ANY “DISPUTE” (AS DEFINED BELOW) BETWEEN YOU AND SNEI, SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT INC., SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT AMERICA LLC, THEIR AFFILIATES, PARENTS OR SUBSIDIARIES (ALL ENTITIES COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO BELOW AS “SONY ENTITIES”). YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER PROVISIONS AS FURTHER DESCRIBED IN SECTION 15.”
So what is this notorious “Section 15″ to which they refer? The “too long; didn’t read” version boils down to this; if you have a beef with Sony, you will now be contractually obligated to take it up with them directly and individually. You can’t sue them as a part of a class action and you can’t be named in any kind of governmental legislation that might be enacted against Sony. Well, not if you want to keep using PSN.
“15. BINDING INDIVIDUAL ARBITRATION
Purpose. The term “Dispute” means any dispute, claim, or controversy between you and any Sony Entity regarding any Sony Online Services or the use of any devices sold by a Sony Entity to access Sony Online Services, whether based in contract, statute, regulation, ordinance, tort (including, but not limited to, fraud, misrepresentation, fraudulent inducement, or negligence), or any other legal or equitable theory, and includes the validity, enforceability or scope of this Section 15 (with the exception of the enforceability of the Class Action Waiver clause below). “Dispute” is to be given the broadest possible meaning that will be enforced. If you have a Dispute with any Sony Entity or any of a Sony Entity’s officers, directors, employees and agents that cannot be resolved through negotiation within the time frame described in the “Notice of Dispute” clause below. Other than those matters listed in the Exclusions from Arbitration clause,
you and the Sony Entity that you have a Dispute with agree to seek resolution of the Dispute only through arbitration of that Dispute in accordance with the terms of this Section 15, and not litigate any Dispute in court. Arbitration means that the Dispute will be resolved by a neutral arbitrator instead of in a court by a judge or jury.
Exclusions from Arbitration. YOU AND THE SONY ENTITIES AGREE THAT ANY CLAIM FILED BY YOU OR BY A SONY ENTITY IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE ARBITRATION TERMS CONTAINED IN THIS SECTION 15.
RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.Notice of Dispute. IF YOU HAVE A DISPUTE WITH ANY SONY ENTITY, YOU MUST SEND WRITTEN NOTICE TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION, ATTN: SONY LEGAL DEPARTMENT: DISPUTE RESOLUTION” TO GIVE SNEI OR THE SONY ENTITY YOU HAVE A DISPUTE WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESOLVE THE DISPUTE
INFORMALLY THROUGH NEGOTIATION. You agree to negotiate resolution of the Dispute in good faith for no less than 60 days after you provide notice of the Dispute. If the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with does not resolve your Dispute within 60 days from receipt of notice of the Dispute, you or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may pursue your claim in arbitration pursuant to the terms in this Section 15.
Class Action Waiver. ANY DISPUTE RESOLUTION PROCEEDINGS, WHETHER IN ARBITRATION OR COURT, WILL BE CONDUCTED ONLY ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS AND NOT IN A CLASS OR REPRESENTATIVE ACTION OR AS A NAMED OR UNNAMED MEMBER IN A CLASS, CONSOLIDATED, REPRESENTATIVE OR PRIVATE ATTORNEY GENERAL LEGALACTION, UNLESS BOTH YOU AND THE SONY ENTITY WITH WHICH YOU HAVE A DISPUTE SPECIFICALLY AGREE TO DO SO IN WRITING FOLLOWING INITIATION OF THE ARBITRATION. THIS PROVISION DOES NOT PRECLUDE YOUR PARTICIPATION AS A MEMBER IN A CLASS ACTION FILED ON OR BEFORE AUGUST 20, 2011.
SNEAInitiation of Arbitration Proceeding/Selection of Arbitrator. If you or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with elect to resolve your Dispute through arbitration, the party initiating the arbitration proceeding may initiate it with the American Arbitration Association (“AAA”), www.adr.org, or JAMS www.jamsadr.com. The terms of this Section 15 govern in the event they conflict with the rules of the arbitration organization selected by the parties.Arbitration Procedures. Because the software and/or service provided to you by the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with concern interstate commerce, the Federal Arbitration Act (“FAA”) governs the arbitrability of all Disputes. However, applicable federal or state law may also apply to the substance of any Disputes. For claims of less than $75,000, the AAA’s Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes (“Supplementary Procedures”) shall apply including the schedule of arbitration fees set forth in Section C-8 of the Supplementary Procedures; for claims over $75,000, the AAA’s Commercial Arbitration Rules and relevant fee schedules for non-class action proceedings shall apply. The AAA rules are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879. Further, if your claims do not exceed $75,000 and you provided notice to and negotiated in good faith with the Sony Entity you had a Dispute with as described above, if the arbitrator finds
that you are the prevailing party in the arbitration, you will be entitled to recover reasonable attorneys’ fees and costs as determined by the arbitrator, in addition to any rights to recover the same under controlling state or federal law afforded to the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with or you. The arbitrator will make any award in writing but need not provide a statement of reasons unless requested by a party. Such award will be binding and final, excerpt for any right of appeal provided by the FAA, and may be entered in any court having jurisdiction over the parties for purposes of enforcement.
Location of Arbitration. You or the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may initiate arbitration in either San Mateo County, California or the county in which you reside. In the event that you select the county of your residence, the Sony Entity you have a Dispute with may transfer the arbitration to San Mateo, County in the event that it agrees to pay any additional fees or costs you incur as a result of the change in location as determined by the arbitrator.Severability. If any clause within this Section 15 (other than the Class Action Waiver clause above) is found to be illegal or unenforceable, that clause will be severed from this Section 15, and the remainder of this Section 15 will be given full force and effect. If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the Dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.
Continuation. This Section 15 shall survive any termination of this Agreement or the provision of Sony Online Services to you.”
In other words, you want PSN? Absolve us of any blame for giving away your info.
September 14th, 2011 at 11:38 pm
“You can’t sue them as a part of a class action and you can’t be named in any kind of governmental legislation that might be enacted against Sony. Well, not if you want to keep using PSN.”
Except if you opt out of the section. If you had actually read any of it, you would see that.
Typical biased journalism.
September 14th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
Errrr, “opt out” means OPT OUT OF PLAYSTATION NETWORK. (face palm).
September 14th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
I did some additional digging and it turns out Blockbuster was sued over almost this exact same thing. The plaintiff referred to it as an “unconscionable contract”.
http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Harris_v._Blockbuster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_v._Blockbuster_Inc.
“the court found that Blockbuster’s arbitration provision was illusory, because there was nothing in the Terms and Conditions that would prevent Blockbuster from “unilaterally changing any part of the contract.””
September 15th, 2011 at 12:19 am
Solution – file a class action lawsuit for attempted fraud and breach of contract against Sony for trying to deprive customers of the key feature of the device they bought. They’re essentially requiring customers to waive their right to due process in exchange for using the device that Sony advertised.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:20 am
No, Jonah, it means opt out of the SECTION. If it meant opting out of the PSN it would have said so explicitly.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:30 am
[...] new games like Resistance 3 or Battlefield 3 come out and the desire to use the PSN grows stronger.ReadYou may also like -Resistance 3 Creator, Insomniac Games …Geohot has left the US, avoiding [...]
September 15th, 2011 at 12:58 am
Typical evil corporate mentality. Thanks for showing us your true colors, Sony. That nice $1250 Sony VAIO laptopI was going to buy TOMORROW? Think I’ll go with an ASUS G74 instead.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:05 am
Well, those exploding batteries are a thing of the past, Glenn.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:05 am
@MSG – You have two options under this new TOS:
“IF YOU CLICK THE “DO NOT ACCEPT” BUTTON, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ACCESS PSN”
and
“IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION.”
September 15th, 2011 at 3:40 am
GFY Sony! By putting this in your EULA you basically confirm that you have an inferior and accident prone network.
DIAF!
September 15th, 2011 at 5:55 am
So…you have Sony being dicks, you have Microsoft being dicks, you have Activision being dicks, you have EA being dicks, you have Capcom being dicks…is there anyone out there in the gaming industry not being dicks towards consumers?
This is what is called “a smart ‘business’ move” which usually screws us gamers over, i.e Xbox LIVE and Call of Duty DLC. Even though people say they are going to do something about, I just say look at how many people still pay for Xbox LIVE and Call of Duty DLC.
Where I stand, this a bullshit (but clever) move but I did get 4 free games out of it, so I have no need to cry.
btw I didn’t forget about Nintendo, I assumed that everyone knows just how many dick moves that company makes.
September 15th, 2011 at 6:32 am
“If the Class Action Waiver clause is found to be illegal or unenforceable, this entire Section 15 will be unenforceable, and the Dispute will be decided by a court and you and the Sony Entity you have a dispute with each agree to waive in that instance, to the fullest extent allowed by law, any trial by jury.”
This part is kind of strange. Basically, if this whole section is found to be illegal, it’s voided and you therefore have to give up the right to a trial by jury? If it’s found to be illegal, and it’s voided, how can they expect that demand to be upheld?
Anyway, you’re not opting out of PSN, but you’re opting out of a class action suit. It seems to me the average person doesn’t have the resources to pursue legal action outside of a class action lawsuit. I sure couldn’t afford it.
Dang, I knew I should’ve bought From Dust yesterday!
September 15th, 2011 at 7:35 am
…How is this a big deal exactly?
September 15th, 2011 at 7:47 am
You people cry too much. You can still sue Sony for the Network breach since it happened before this wavier was put on PSN.
Evil corporation? Yes because millions of people are going to sue Sony. Tell me who here has? Come on anyone? Anyone? Thats right very few people have.
And as for there removing of the OS thats the hackers fault you can blame them. Sony didnt give a shit until they were hacking there system.
September 15th, 2011 at 8:12 am
For all the morons out there, let me explain this in a way you might understand. Basically, if you want to sue Sony, don’t accept the terms and conditions. Yeah, you won’t be able to sign in to the Playstation Network anymore, which why would you want to if you’re sueing them anyway? If also does not prevent a class-action lawsuit. Why do people feel the need to sue them anyway? Do you expect them to pay reparations because some retards hack them and shut them down for weeks? If that’s the case, why not sue the hackers?
September 15th, 2011 at 9:18 am
If you’re going to sue them, don’t use PSN. In fact, if you’re suing over the data breach, WHY are you STILL using PSN? Talk about biting the hand that feeds. I don’t think the people taking this stuff to court deserve to have their cake and eat it too, so if they want to sue Sony, I think Sony has every right to deny them service. As for the whole “denying” of essential features, that’s bogus and the courts have ruled on it already. You are using the PSN under contract for it’s intended purpose, and if you don’t accept the terms, you don’t get to play it. Haven’t you ever signed a waiver absolving a company of injury liability? Same thing, just digital. If you agree to use PSN, then you agree not to sue Sony over future data breaches or changes in service.
As for the newsworthiness of this article, you’re looking for something to be outraged about. Good thing you found section 15, an article on killing Qriocity wouldn’t have gotten near as many hits, I’m sure.
September 15th, 2011 at 9:24 am
Isn’t this the same as extortion since they’re preventing you from using the PSN service, especially since some games requires the PSN to run? For example: Final Fight
Wouldn’t this mean Sony’s liable for a new class action lawsuit by people who didn’t agree to these terms, because Sony’s blocking them from accessing the PSN to play their games they’ve legally paid for?
September 15th, 2011 at 9:42 am
@ Tom B: PlayStation®Network is not a key feature of the PlayStation®3. PlayStation®Network is a separate, private network. you can access PlayStation®Network without a PlayStation®3.
September 15th, 2011 at 9:54 am
back to your old tricks, eh, Jonah?
did Gamestooge’s hits get that low?
“In other words, you want PSN? Absolve us of any blame for giving away your info.”
you are a master troll.
September 15th, 2011 at 9:58 am
@Sean – Check the by-line… I wrote the article, not Jonah.
P.S. Everyone else is covering it now too. Yet another boneheaded bad press move for Sony.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:16 am
i stand corrected!
my apologies, i was coming off his link from N4G.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:38 am
back to your old tricks, eh,
JonahSony?There, fixed it for you.
* * *
You’re kidding, right? That goes against everything Sony said and has said in the past 5 years. “PSN is an integral part of the PS3 experience!”
Oh, and by the way, PSN is no longer free for some. They’re paying $70/yr.
The last time that popped up on PSN was the Leap Year Bug.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:55 am
@ Jonah:
1. again, PSN isn’t actually a feature of the PS3. as previously stated, it’s a private network and separate from the system itself. you don’t need to create a PSN account to even use your PS3, nor do you even need a PS3 (or even a PSP) to have a PSN account. therefore, it is not a feature.
2. again, no. PSN is still free for everyone. people can choose to subscribe to PS+ for $60 (not $70 as you’ve incorrectly stated), but those who do not subscribe to PS+ can still play online and they still have access to all of the features that were available prior to PS+’s existence. there is nothing that PS+ does that changes the core online experience of the PS3.
3. troll fail is fail.
September 15th, 2011 at 11:03 am
Thank god I live in Finland and such a thing could never pass here…
September 15th, 2011 at 11:31 am
furthermore, as someone on another forum has pointed out:
“If everyone read the terms of service, you can accept the terms to get online. And within 30 days write a letter to Sony and tell them you don’t agree with clause 15, it says so right in the ToS, and you will still be able to access psn.”
September 15th, 2011 at 11:36 am
Then you lose all rights to a class-action suit, and must settle with Sony in BINDING ARBITRATION.
Meaning: you vs. Sony’s lawyers.
Good luck.
I love the blinding loyalty to a massive corporation who doesn’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you. They care about your money. Once you’ve given it to them, you could die a horrible death and they wouldn’t care.
Fanboys easily forgive Sony for leaving their doors wide open after they’d be TOLD, even in their OFFICIAL FORUMS, that their security was cracked, and didn’t lock the doors.
You can bend over and get fucked by Sony – Jordan won’t. He wants compensation for Sony’s blunder, and he’s not going to allow Song into strongarming him into giving up his rights.
You sound like a clueless moron who would forgive Sony if they dumped toxic waste in your bedroom.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
[...] Read The Full Story: http://www.gamestooge.com [...]
September 15th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
“I love the blinding loyalty to a massive corporation who doesn’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you. They care about your money. Once you’ve given it to them, you could die a horrible death and they wouldn’t care.”
no corporation on the planet cares about anyone, so that’s a moot point.
“Fanboys easily forgive Sony for leaving their doors wide open after they’d be TOLD, even in their OFFICIAL FORUMS, that their security was cracked, and didn’t lock the doors.”
link? i’m only asking because you’ve already proven yourself to be an ill-informed clod.
“You can bend over and get fucked by Sony – Jordan won’t. He wants compensation for Sony’s blunder, and he’s not going to allow Song into strongarming him into giving up his rights.”
what blunder? other people going out of their way to break into the system and steal people’s information – information that can be obtained by a simple google internet search or by simply opening up a phone book?
also, no rights are being relinquished. nice try, though.
September 15th, 2011 at 12:37 pm
does this also effect people that may have to have the lastest firmware in order to play the lastest releases? if so i think this is sony’s tactic into forcing people to give up their rights and should be illegal
September 15th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
“They’re essentially requiring customers to waive their right to due process in exchange for using the device that Sony advertised.”
That isn’t the case, they are just saying they don’t want to deal with over litigious people. You enter a contract for a service, there are going to be some risks involved. Sony is saying don’t point the finger at them. Look peeps it’s buyer beware if you don’t want to protect yourself you can’t expect a corporation to do it for you.
This is normal cover your legal ass shit.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
@The dude
Not only would it prevnt you from getting the latest firmware for new releases…. Let’s say the game you bought has a bug and needs to be patched. Too bad. No updates for you. Enjoy your broken game.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Wow, talk about selective interpretation. Read the document in it’s entirety, do some research, and figure out what it means for you. A sheep is a sheep, it goes both ways. You don’t have to blindly acquiesce to the machinations of big business, but to arbitrarily follow the subjective “insights” of anti-corporate instigators is just as bad.
I won’t say that the author is such a perpetrator, he’s just a biased “journalist” less interested in informing the public that being credited for addressing a supposed outrage. I just can’t figure if he’s a real ideologue, or just to lazy to present all the points. Just like a sheep is a sheep, a troll is a troll, no matter how you try to dress it up.
September 15th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
wtf? your all crazy. i read this one person saying they only care about your money. how the fuck does that make sense psn is free. xbox on the other hand is out to get your money. and the other guy is right. what corporation cares about you. none. and wth are you all complaining for. are we this spoiled? there are other ways to access the digital services like qriocity. a computer perhaps? or maybe a dvd player. my dvd player has hulu qriocity youtube and many more. you are all spoiled. you want your information safe? why are you dumb enough to put your credit info in psn. or anything that leaks. i use psn cards to get what i want. i keeep my credit card for official purchases from stores
September 15th, 2011 at 1:58 pm
just accept the fucking tos you dont need to be sueing anyone for any reason unless your personal being is at stake. ive heard people saying they are sueing becuase of sony taking away a digital service blind fools they are
September 15th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
I think a judge would take a look at that and say: “I don’t think so”. You can’t abrogate your rights no matter what the TOS reads. Microsoft tried same thing when purchasing retail copy of Windows O.S. It said you’re buying a license and we can tell you when you’re no longer allowed to use it. Guess what Microsoft always provided a way to transfer the software to someone else. You have to call Microsoft’s Toll Free # but the license bit is still in the TOS. YOU CAN’T ABROGATE YOUR RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW.
September 15th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
“just accept the fucking tos you dont need to be sueing anyone for any reason unless your personal being is at stake.”
Translation: Sony can dump toxic waste on my lawn. I don’t care.
September 15th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
“I think a judge would take a look at that and say: “I don’t think so”.”
Exactly. Blockbuster and other companies have tried it, and have gotten shot down.
The entire point is not about the attempt – it’s putting it in context. All the shit Sony has done – which they took weeks to even ADMIT happened and would never have until GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATIONS FORCED THEM TO – they want to brute force absolving? Those are brass balls the size of bowling balls.
They’ve lost $175M last I saw – they’re going to lose more.
They can’t strongarm the government like they did George Hotz (and Hotz didn’t do anything illegal.)
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37262/Sony_Amends_Online_Terms_To_Block_Class_Action_Lawsuits.php
My favorite part: if any of this TOS is found illegal, then you agree to waive the right to a trial by Jury when you do go to court. LOL
September 15th, 2011 at 3:01 pm
what is exactly wrong with you, Jonah?
why are you so intent on trying to convince people to hate the PS3 as much as you do?
you still don’t even own one.
calm down. you’re making yourself sound ridiculous.
September 15th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
@Cable201
Very well said sir!
September 15th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
[...] of Service policy that effectively stops people from ever joining a class-action suit against it. Gamestooge reports that if you sign up for the PlayStation Network, you waive your right to sue as part of a [...]
September 15th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
This is messed up. Just as was stated, you agree then your personal information is up for grabs with no way to defend yourself.
September 15th, 2011 at 4:07 pm
just play under a different name and except the terms and not under the psn id your suing under
September 15th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
@Jonah Falcon
how the hell does what i say translate to i dont care if toxic waste is dumped in my lawn. if its in my lawn my personal being is at stake. its MY lawn i live right on it in a house. if i step out im exposed. ITS TOXIC learn to read and interperate. your translation is horrible. and so are your views. i dont need to sue anyone unless im in danger toxic waste on my lawn puts me in danger therefore i sue
September 15th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
@destrylp
“This is messed up. Just as was stated, you agree then your personal information is up for grabs with no way to defend yourself.”
just like everything else you sign up for. this is no different
September 15th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
“just like everything else you sign up for. this is no different”
Nice strawman, and completely and utterly wrong.
September 15th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/222978/psn-update-shields-sony-from-lawsuits-but-not-users-from-bad-service/
*cough*
September 15th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
“Not only would it prevnt you from getting the latest firmware for new releases…. Let’s say the game you bought has a bug and needs to be patched. Too bad. No updates for you. Enjoy your broken game.”
*sigh* no…. because:
you can *opt out* of the clause *even after you’ve accepted the ToS*, so you will be able to have the latest FW not to mention the fact that game updates *do not even require you to have access to PSN*.
enjoy your broken logic.
September 15th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Sony is just one epic failure after another. Vote with your wallet and skip the Sony products next time. They are all inferior anyway.
September 15th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
anything that stops frivolous law suits is fine by me. Sony has always been good to me, with everything from cameras to mp3 players to ebooks to my ps3. they took care of me after the outage and i have absolutely no issues with them, whatsoever.
[Why don't you ask Jordan if the lawsuits are "frivolous", or the US, Canadian or British government if it's frivolous to protect consumer rights? - Jonah Falcon]
September 15th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
learn to read kids, instead of jumping the gun, you’d know this is an optional clause. Retarded as fuck ya’ll are.
[Yes, you have the option not to have PSN anymore. - Jonah Falcon.]
September 15th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
@ Jonah:
“They can’t strongarm the government like they did George Hotz (and Hotz didn’t do anything illegal.)”
actually, circumventing access control to software to which he, you or i don’t own the rights to and then distributing the means to allow anyone to do what he did violates a fairly significant portion of the DMCA, making what he did very illegal.
of course, you’ve yet to demonstrate a clear understanding of anything, so i don’t expect you to understand a simple concept like ownership rights.
and hotz settling points to the fact that he (or at least his lawyers) realized he couldn’t win his case, not because of money, but because he had no legal ground to stand on (not that he did from the very beginning anyway). trying to argue that he didn’t know who SCEA was, fleeing to south america and publishing an embarrassing rap video only made him look like a bigger fool.
September 15th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
“[Yes, you have the option not to have PSN anymore. - Jonah Falcon.]”
no. because if you opt out of the clause within the 30 days that the ToS indicates, you will still have access to PSN.
nice try, captain hyperbole.
September 15th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
And I would love when Sony lawsuit this site and it’s journalists and gamasutra by damage, loses, bad publicity and everything else they can. Because if you can be law happy, Sony can too. Doesn’t matter if you don’t like a corporation, but if they think you are harming their profits just expect to be visited and screwed over.
As everybody else said before
1)if you are sueing a company because of the lack of security of their product why do you still use it?
2)You can mail them saying you don’t agree with section 15.
3)They warned everybody in e-mail saying what was the new ToS about, warn again in the beginning of the new ToS and mention several times that if you don’t agree you can still use PSN but just have to mail them.
Tell me how is this malevolent? I bet some people preffer companies that use fine print and don’t even mention it so they don’t know and are all happy clows.
September 15th, 2011 at 11:01 pm
@jonah Falcon
“Nice strawman, and completely and utterly wrong.”
oh? im wrong? do you have credit cards have you signed up for newsletters. you have emails and addresses. dont you? you arent invisible. your information is out there. companies can find it. hell. regular people can even find it.
September 16th, 2011 at 2:53 am
Who. Cares.
Unless you have any inclination to sue Sony (in other words, 0.000001% of PSN members), this does not matter.
September 16th, 2011 at 3:06 am
Sony needs to get the FUCK out of the games industry. They are bad business for everything they produce.
September 16th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Story is now being covered by the BBC, The Examiner and Ars Technica… Looks like this is a pretty big story after all!
September 16th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Of course it is a pretty big story. $ony are arrogant idiots. Do they really think they can get away with this?
Everything $ony touches turns to mediocrity.
Vote with your wallet people.
NO MORE $ONY PRODUCTS!
September 16th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@Jordan: And you broke it FIRST.
September 16th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Oh, and people talking about the opt out, here’s the deal according to the BBC:
Tech news site The Register wondered who would notice the small print outlining the opt-out terms, and not simply click the “agree” box having scrolled all the way down.
Those that want to opt out will have to send a letter to Sony’s Los Angeles headquarters in the US.
Once they do, the subscribers will be able to keep their right to file a class action lawsuit without any need for arbitration.
But before subscribers have a chance to opt out, they will still be required to agree to the new terms the next time they log into their accounts.
Otherwise they will not be able to use the online services.
September 19th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
I wanted to add that this licensee agreement will be added to some games as well after the sept 15 2011
reason I know this, is, I bought “trinity souls of Zill O’ll”. In order to even play the game offline, I was forced to update the firmware (from the disk) and agree to the license agreement to play the game exclusively offline. so technically this does not apply only to online content but offline games as well.
As for those people who won’t sue sony think again. Sony wiped the funds from my wallet after they brought the server back up after the hack. How many of you besides me have had money stolen from your wallet besides me? I am guessing millions of people have.
This is the theft conducted by Sony, NOT THE HACKERS!
the following affects anyone using PSN:
I signed the license agreement and as a result i can’t get the money stolen from the wallet, (by sony), back. What I could do is join a class action to dispute the license agreement to force sony to return the stolen funds to all consumers who had their wallets zeroed by them.
I might add that you think I am alone in having the money zeroed in wallet my problem what you may not realize is that you add up millions of users and add them together lets say every one had 2 dollars and 1 million people had their wallet zeroed that’s 2 million dollar theft.
I would join a class action in a heart beat. any individual person stealing 2 million would go to jail for a long time.
personally i think this move is to cover their tracks for their illegal activity, which they know they are guilty of. like putting root-kits in the firmware which is illegal. stealing money from the wallets. intentionally bricking ps3 on the claim of stopping “malicious crackers” and in the end making a lot of money forcing innocent consumers to dole out 150$ or more in repairs of having to send in the ps3 to have the firmware reset to prior setting which they say isn’t possible but is.
One other point like to make out. I doubt the letter to opt-out sent to Sony legal department would hold up in court
for simple fact: Sony can throw the letter away without opening it and by doing so they can claim no receipt of letter and thus binding you to the license agreement regardless of your opting out.
sony has demonstrated they can no longer be trusted. they have made claims in the past that they will do ANYTHING to PROTECT AND INCREASE their bottom line.
If the opt-out was sent to a third party lawyer, Not, paid for by Sony, then I would believe the opt-out could be trusted. Since the letter is going to a company that thinks its totally above the law and abusing the consumer as slaves with no rights they have lost all future revenue from me which is 100% of my entertainment spending, don’t have Xbox or nintendo or any other.
final note: personally I think someone needs to do a “Robinhood” on Sony, Take back what Sony stole from the wallets and the repair costs for their mistakes, etc, and give it back to the people.
September 21st, 2011 at 8:44 pm
[...] PSN unless you waive [...]
September 21st, 2011 at 8:56 pm
[...] PSN unless you waive [...]
September 27th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
i’m not a lawer but i’m not sure about the validity or the legality of this even if someone sign this
they screwed big time with personnal informations of the users
if something like that happens again the future it.S like if they force you to renounce your rights to sue them whatever happens with your personnal infos